OFF THE CHARTS: Authentic Stories of Indie Musicians - A Discussion with Braden on ADHD

“The smartest and dumbest, most motivated and laziest person in the room…all at once - I always felt that way growing up.”

I sat down for a conversation with Braden, a talented musician and one of my students from the Music Mentorship Program. Braden and I share a connection through our experiences with ADHD. In this interview, we delve into the intersections of music, identity, and neurodiversity, shedding light on the beautiful complexities of the artistic process and the transformative power of music.

Braden, let’s start with how we met. How did you get introduced to my Music Mentorship Program?

I’ve been following your music for awhile—when I was about 15 when I downloaded some of your early EPs from a website called Noisetrade. (Illicitly, because rock music was contraband in my household.) I’ve followed you since then and wanted to join your MMP from the start, but it wasn’t until 2023 that I finally signed up.

That’s awesome. I remember hearing your music and being really stoked to have you as a student. Your music felt so vulnerable and honest, and those are values I encourage artists/musicians in the class to prioritize. What do you do for work and how does music fit into your life?

I’m far from a full-time musician. In my day job I’m a barista (that synergistic relationship of music and coffee!) but I play weddings or events and do contracted studio work, and I’ve had a few bands that played some fun shows. Music is a way I verbally process my more disjointed thoughts and ask people what they think.

“You just process the world around you in a way that isn’t as compatible with how the world around you often communicates and functions.”

So, I want to go back to this moment when I was teaching, and I mentioned that many of the practices and tools I use are fitted to my context of having ADHD. I remember you were excited about that because you also have it. What’s been your journey with ADHD as an artist? How does it impact your life, workflow, and creativity?

So I found out about my ADHD a little later in life. It made a lot of sense and helped me feel better about the struggles I had with school, completing tasks, and following verbal instructions when I was younger. Realizing that your problem has a name is so affirming and powerful when you’ve spent your whole life pinning labels on yourself like “lazy” and “dumb.” It’s crazy to realize that you’re not any of those things, you just process the world around you in a way that isn’t as compatible with how the world around you often communicates and functions.

“ADHD can actually be this wonderful superpower that lends itself really well to the creative life”

Now that I’m aware of my condition, I’m figuring out how to change my habits and ways of operating to effectively create. ADHD can actually be this wonderful superpower that lends itself really well to the creative life—I’m constantly interpreting reality through this weird barrage of ideas, images, and associations that make for good songs and stories. The trick is developing the tools for pulling the barrage into a solid idea and staying focused long enough to turn that idea into art. I’m still figuring that out and have spent a lot of frustrated hours yelling at myself for not being able to sit down and just finish the thing. But having grace with yourself is really important—taking a deep breath, reminding yourself it’s not your fault and maybe you just need a slightly different approach.

You’ve always been an extremely focused and prolific creator, so I’d be interested to hear more about any tactics or revelations that have helped you in your process, especially as a fellow recently-diagnosed adult.

I also didn’t know I had ADHD until far into adulthood, and I had many of the same experiences—not having a name for it other than things like “dumb,” or “unable to XYZ.” If I wanted to do something, I was full-on dedicated and high achieving. But when it came to tasks that I wanted to avoid, I struggled to motivate myself and it was a major roadblock. I didn’t have a name for ADHD and so I didn’t have tools.

As I progressed into adulthood, I started to develop them but still didn’t call it ADHD. I just thought everyone struggled with the same thing, so I made regiments, practices, and disciplines to compensate for what I was experiencing. I even taught those things to the students I was mentoring! But it seems those were useful to a lot of students whether they had ADHD or not. I’ve heard it said that most of the entertainment industry is probably made of ADHD creative people, some diagnosed some not.

 Tell me more about having ADHD and feeling misunderstood. How would you help someone who didn’t have ADHD to understand you?

First, I’d say it’s important to know that even though people are grouped together on the ADHD/autistic/neurodivergent spectrum, each person is different and processes information uniquely. When I was a kid, it seemed physically impossible to get through a page of a Shakespeare reading assignment but I could put a good six hours into blocking and choreographing a post-apocalyptic musical in my head while I bounced on a trampoline! I also struggled to follow verbal instructions and I got berated for my inability to understand or visualize something explained in words.

As a neurodivergent artist constantly worried about being misunderstood, I’ve learned the importance of asking questions and trying to genuinely understand the other person’s frame of reference. This process is crucial as an artist. Art is a way to discover and express yourself, but I believe it’s just as important to discover and express other voices and experiences too.

I love your emphasis on learning how to listen and understand others. Feeling misunderstood can soften our hearts to want to understand others.

There are a ton of YouTube videos on ADHD. This is one of my favorites:

I love where she describes being the “smartest and dumbest, most motivated and laziest person in the room…all at once.” I always felt that way growing up. My efforts in music and anything I put my mind to have always put me frontstage (no pun intended). Yet, I was (and am) constantly missing things that other people seem to get, which made me feel dumb or slow. But once I was diagnosed and could explain this constant contradiction in my life, it all made sense. I began to use my neurodiversity to serve me instead of making me feel dumb.

We’ve talked a bit about how ADHD can be a superpower in a variety of ways, especially in creative tasks. What does this superpower look like in your creative life as a musician?

The hyperfocus mode that comes with the deluxe ADHD package can be effective when I point it in the right direction. When that lightning bolt strikes and my brain engages with something I’m excited about, time becomes meaningless and I can grind away at a song or project for hours in this manic frenzy. And I touched on this earlier, but the way my brain jumps from thought to thought can lead to some interesting connections of ideas or images when I’m in a creative flow. I also have this eternal inner dialogue (other friends with ADHD have told me they also have this)—constant multi-voiced muttering in your brain with no off switch or volume knob. Not always a fun time, but when I’m throwing ideas at the wall for a song, I’ll sometimes hear words or ideas coming out of that inner dialogue that bring a new twist on a lyrical idea I’m trying to flesh out.

Yeah, I credit those things for so much of my productivity in music. The hyperfocus kicks in and I get into a flow that can sometimes last for hours. I have to keep that in check though or I can forget to eat and get hangry or miss other important things. I’m often chastised for the whole “squirrel” distraction thing that dogs do, but that’s where most of my ideas come from. One random thought leads to another and into a rabbit trail of ideas that finally lands on something cool. 

I actually incorporate this process into an exercise for the MMP. The screenshot below isn’t super coherent, but it shows how the idea is to start with a single word and make word webs.

This is the basis of creativity, continuing the forward motion of ideas whether they make sense at first or not. Since this is how my brain works all the time anyway and I can’t turn it off, it’s a huge help as an artist, and I’m sure it’s the same for others. For musicians with ADHD, this onslaught of random ideas from one to another really does become a superpower when it’s time to write lyrics or compose music.

One last thing on this topic I want to explore. It’s common for those of us with ADHD to get stuck or frustrated with ourselves because of the constant forgetfulness, being lost, disorganized, impulsive, etc. How do you combat this discouragement and stay positive and productive?

For me, the first two steps in moving toward positivity and growth were dealing with an alcohol dependency I’d developed in my twenties and finding a good therapist to help me take that habitual, negative self-talk back to its roots.

“Most of the entertainment industry is probably made of ADHD creative people, some diagnosed some not.”

I’m also making art that’s intentionally not going to be shown to anyone—doodling in notebooks or writing tasteless “butt rock” guitar riffs for fun. When that ADHD paralysis hits, doing a little session of easy “bad” art can be a great way to break out, turn off my internal critic, and ease into the excitement of making something new.

That’s great! I have a set of tools I’ve been using for years, even before I knew I had ADHD: ice baths, Wim Hoff breathing, yoga, exercise, an array of vitamins, and executive function tools. After identifying the ADHD, it was funny to realize how much of my life I’d already adjusted to compensate for it, though now it’s easier to identify and implement processes when they’re needed.

So, you have this song called “Swimming Lessons” that you wrote and worked on while you were in the MMP. I remember being struck by how honest and vulnerable it was. Is it related to your wading through things with ADHD or am I reading into it too much?

Well, the image of swimming lessons illustrates the struggle of learning something you feel you should have learned earlier, and how daunting that can be. That applies to my ADHD struggles and other adjacent stuff. In the song, I’m feeling paralyzed by how much work it takes to get better and become the kind of person I want to be. But then there’s this other voice that’s answering back, reminding me it’s not too late, it’s worth the work, and urging me toward acceptance and surrender. I was privileged to work with another student, Micia, and her gorgeous background vocals really gave life to that second answering voice. I’m really happy with how it turned out.

I was really moved by that song, and it was exciting to work out some of the details with you in the class sessions. What’s next for you and your music now?

 Hopefully more writing! Playing live shows is my favorite thing, but I’m not at a place in my life where I can do that regularly, so my 2024 goal is to keep demoing songs and releasing singles on a more consistent schedule. Hopefully, I keep finding people who like the art I make and want to stick around for it. I love that songs and stories create community, and if I can keep using my art to connect with likeminded folks who get something out of it, that would make me really happy.

Right on, dude! I’ve really appreciated the camaraderie in this chat about being a musician with ADHD. It makes me feel more normal in my creative world to know others like you. I love your song and am excited to have some of my fans check it out. Thanks for your vulnerability and time, Braden!

Absolutely. It’s been so encouraging to talk, man. Thanks for all the good thoughts and conversation!